Talk:Chaim Topol

Name of Birthplace

IN 1935, there was no such state as Israel. I'm guessing that at the time of Topol's birth, his birthplace was called Palestine. Should this be acknowledged, and can anyone confirm either way? JackofOz 09:11, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Jack of OZ you are technically correct but historically wrong---Israel was then called Palestine, and under British rule and had no Soverign power, but many Jews lived there after being cast out of many countries and especially Nazi Germany and Russia. Isreal has always existed if only in the minds of Jews and Christians around the world--even if it was just a spiritual place with no Sovereignity ot real existence. It was in 1949 that Isreal again became a real nation that it has been some nearly 3000 years ago. In the meantime it had been ruled by Babylonians, Egyptians, Phoenicians, Romans, Greeks, the Ottoman Empire, the Crusaders and the Knights of Malta among many others and finaly the British.

Jew bashing has often resulted in their being cast out of their homelands and when this happened they typically immigrate to two places, most often: Isreal and the United States. This has been going on since Columbus left for the Americas in 1492 when Isabella ran an ethic cleansing campaign to cast out all Jews from Spain for which Spain paid dearly for economically and is still paying for to this very day. Those who did not immigrate were required to become Christians by the Inquisition or face the judgement of the Inquisition which meant torture, boiling in oil, hanging,beheading, drawn and quartered and many other barbaric pracices by so-called Christians--self righeous though they were. They were known as conversos. Conversos were still persecuted because supposedly they were not Christian enough and were thought to be having secret Jewish services behind the Inquisitions back. The first Jews, in what is now the United States, came to Charleston, SC and established the first and oldest continuing Temple in North America. It was from this Temple that the Reform movement began which relaxed many of the traditional Orthodox customs and commandments as not appropriate for a modern age---for example to get married one does not go beat up one hundred men, circumsize them and present their foreskins to the father or the future bride (but that was the custom during King Solomon's time) nor does one throw ones wife out on a cold winter's night because she is having her period as the Book of Leviticus commands. The Reform movement sought to modernize and bring up to date Hebrew religion. In many Reformed Temples the services are very similar to Christian ones.

Strictly speaking you are correct, but the convention is to write Israel in such cases. For example, my mother was born in 1943, but her passport and all official documents, including international documents, list "Israel" as her country of birth. --Woggly 09:44, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

There is no "convention". The state of Israel did not exist at the time and Mandate of Palestine should be Chaim's correct place of birth. The change thereof is most likely due to subjective, retroactive political maneuvering of a much disputed legacy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.156.234.50 (talk • contribs)

Yes there is such a convention, and it is respected by many countries outside of Israel. The fact is that the subjects of the then British Mandate of Palestine became citizens of Israel when Israel was established, and retained no rights as British subjects. The British Mandate of Palestine no longer exists. Nor are people born in this same territory prior to 1922 under the Ottoman empire considered Turkish nowadays. While I see nothing wrong with the solution that has evolved on Wikipedia (See, for example: Daniel Kahneman) which gives the readers the option of reading up on their history, the flat out statement "there is no convention" is simply wrong. --woggly 06:14, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

He was born in Tel Aviv

What is Topols real name? Most articles about such actors tell that and when is his birthday? A good example of this is Michael Caine who is Michael Cain in public life but in private he uses his real name. Bette Davis was not Bette Davis but in real life she was Ruby----?---. Tallulah Bankhead seems to have been the exception to this business of using professional names. Tallulah was really Talllulah.

Criticism wording

"Despite some unjustified criticism that he has received over the years for supposedly using "cute" acting tricks.."

Who's to say the criticism was unjustified? I believe removal of the word unjustified would be a suitable remedy.

Pronunciation of surname

Does anyone know the correct pronunciation of the name "Topol"? I always assumed it was TOE-POLE (both syllables stressed), but I have heard it as ta-PAUL (in the same manner as the Star Trek: Enterprise character T'Pol.)65.213.220.62 20:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)databoyecho@aol.com

No, the stress is on the first syllable. "TOE-pole" or "TUH-pole" are decent approximations. -woggly 06:01, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

GREAT PEOPLE OF THE BIBLE

I wanted to add this to his filmography, as he appeared as a character, and was the executive producer, but I am having a hard time finding any information about the mini-series, should I just leave it out? JN322 16:17, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

First film

"Topol appeared in his first film in 1964"

This is inconsistent with the filmography, and is something of an overstatement, seeing as it regards an Accademy Award for Best Foreign Film nominee.

Filmography

From the article ...

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (2001), Rubeus Hagrid (Hebrew Dub) Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (2002), Rubeus Hagrid (Hebrew Dub) The Jungle Book 2 (2003), Bagheera (Hebrew Dub) 'Hebrew Dub' - what does that mean ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.228.214.45 (talk) 07:28, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

It means he did the Hebrew voiceover for these films. Yoninah (talk) 21:13, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Chaim Topol/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Aircorn (talk · contribs) 23:35, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

This seems to have fallen off the GAN page somehow. Sorry it has taken so long for someone to get around to reviewing it. I will look at it over the next few days. AIRcorn (talk) 23:35, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Review

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

---

Nice article. Think it is very close

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   Some suggestions in the comments below, but overall well written and presented

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

   Lots of cites to [1]. Probably too reliant on it if you wanted t get it to features status, but don't see too many issues for a GA. As such it has the highest risk of copyvio on earwigs tool [2]. Most of that is a direct quote so not really an issue. Sources are well presented and contain all information needed. There have been calls to cite filmographies and technically they probably should be. As a compromise can we at least get cites for the non-linked ones.

• Please explain what you want me to do. The filmography chart was there before I expanded the article. Must I find a source for every role in every film? Yoninah (talk) 21:56, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

1. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   It seems a little short for a biography of someone described as Israel's "only internationally-recognized entertainer". Again I don't think it is an issue for a good article as I can't think of anything actually missing. A google search doesn't present anything obvious either

2. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   Not seeing anything to fail this criteria

3. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   Nothing in the article history or talk page to suggest any unstability

4. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   Images are relevant and sll licenses look good

5. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   Close enough to a pass, but have left some comments below you might like to review. AIRcorn (talk) 08:20, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Comments

• A lot of sentences starting with he in the lead. Might be nice to break it up with Topol.

•  Done Yoninah (talk) 21:19, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

• he was Israel's "only internationally-recognized entertainer" I feel that as it is in the lead it should be without quotes or if you want it to stay in quotes it needs to have some attribution. Even a simple "described as".

• Fixed. Yoninah (talk) 21:19, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

• Twenty-three days after being discharged from military service on October 2, 1956, and two days after marrying Galia Finkelstein, a fellow Nahal troupe member, Topol was called up to serve in the Sinai Campaign If he was discharged how can he be calles up to serve in a campaign.
  • Israel military service includes a 2-year compulsory service at ages 18-20, followed by reserve duty on a yearly basis. In case of a war, everyone is called up. I added a link to the article to distinguish his subsequent call-ups. Yoninah (talk) 11:00, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
• Topol assembled a kibbutz theatre company made up of friends from his Nahal troupe Is kibbutz needed here?

• I think so. It's a theatre company specifically associated with a kibbutz or kibbutz members; see my article on Shulamit Bat-Dori. Yoninah (talk) 21:19, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

• was tutored in the lyrics by an Englishwoman This sounds a bit archaic. Does she not have a name?

• Sorry, that's what it says in the source. I tweaked it a bit. Yoninah (talk) 21:19, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

• Prince was flabbergasted that this 30-year-old man had played Shabati Not sure flabbergasted is encyclopedic.

• Changed. Yoninah (talk) 21:19, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

• A few months after the opening, he returned to Israel to serve in the army during the Six-Day War in June. He was assigned to an army entertainment troupe on the Golan Heights. This doesn't really fit in the middle of that paragraph. Maybe it could be reworded to flow better.

• Reworded and in new paragraph. Yoninah (talk) 21:19, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

• sought an actor other than Zero Mostel for the lead role I assumed (and confirmed) that Tevye was the lead role, but it wasn't obvious from this article. Maybe a mention earlier that it is the lead would help the article.

•  Done Yoninah (talk) 21:19, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

• In that production, his youngest daughter, Adi Topol Margalith, played one of his daughters. A lot of commas in this sentence.

•  Done Fixed. Yoninah (talk) 21:19, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

• Topol originated the leading role of the baker What do you mean by originated the role.

•  Done Fixed. Yoninah (talk) 21:19, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

• Is there more context for the behavioral problems? It seems a bit vague at the moment, although it doesn't want t become too Undue.

• I added a little more, though it's just one woman's opinion. Yoninah (talk) 21:19, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

• directed by Joseph Losey Is there a reason to name drop the director?

• No, sorry. Yoninah (talk) 21:19, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

• Is there any more information on his music recordings?

• I added more from the source. I did a search in Hebrew on Google, but there isn't much out there on his work from 50 years ago. Yoninah (talk) 21:56, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

• I didn't see any mention of him being described as the only internationally-recognized entertainer in Israel. Generally we want all information in the lead to be presented in the articles body. If I missed it then just point it out and ignore this.

• Added, thanks. Yoninah (talk) 21:19, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the review! I will attempt to answer your questions shortly. Yoninah (talk) 11:00, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

@Aircorn: I answered all your comments. I just have one question about the filmographies which you mentioned in your review, above. Yoninah (talk) 09:48, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

There is divided opinions on filmograpies. I know WP:ITN won't post an article to the main page unless they are completely cited. The GA criteria is probably less strict than that. I was thinking that the minor ones that are not sourced in the body should probably have a cite. Stuff like The True Story of Palestine (Etz O Palestina). I didn't really explain myself sufficiently about the behavioral problems. I don't need or want more, I just felt they were presented a but vaguely. Given the current film climate my first thought went to sexually inappropriateness and if it is not this it might be better to be clearer on what it is. Not a big issue or one that needs anything extra to pass though. All in all I think we are good to go. P.S. I am on limited internet at the moment (home system has gone down) so don't be alarmed if I am slow in responding. AIRcorn (talk) 09:48, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

 Done Filmography fully cited. Yoninah (talk) 20:15, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

I did 2 versions of the citing for you. Here is the fully cited version, which makes for overciting of footnote 4 in the reference section. Here is the version with sources cited at the bottom of the chart. Please let me know which version is best. Yoninah (talk) 22:20, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Either works as far as the GA criteria go so am passing this. I personally prefer the later, but the only issue could be if more is added ad is no longer covered in the source. Given his age that is unlikely to happen. Congrats on the good article. AIRcorn (talk) 08:31, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you! Yoninah (talk) 10:40, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

This article does not mention his brand of adult toothpaste for smokers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.98.223.109 (talk) 14:53, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Topol has nothing to do with ToPol toothpaste. ToPol brand toothpaste is a portmanteau of the words "tooth" and "polish." KJRehberg (talk) 19:05, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Date of death

When did Topol actually die? Different sources say different things:

Israel Nation News: Overnight Wednesday (What does "overnight" mean anyway?)

Times of Israel, Variety, Hollywood Reporter: Thursday

Guardian, Independent; IMDB: Wednesday

New York Times, BBC : No date at all. 194.69.14.132 (talk) 10:32, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Correction

Both of his parents were born in Poland. תיל"ם (talk) 15:47, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Article probably needs updating

To reflect the posthumous revelations that Topol was employed by the Israeli military/government for undercover intelligence work to evacuate Russian Jews from behind the Iron Curtain. As it's a GA, I'll leave this as a recommendation for regular editors. Kingsif (talk) 15:15, 16 May 2023 (UTC)